Not completely sure how it works right now but from what I understand the initial team draft consists of a snaking ladder with some sort of random selection of order from 1-8.
For the sake of parity, would it be better to select teams in an auction format as no one has the advantage of a first pick or disadvantage of 8th. It's understood that 8th pick round 1 gets 1st pick round 2, but I'm guessing there may be a correlation between the first round pick order and current league standing. (Bush, math this)
In an auction format, every GM would have a lump sum of salary they are able to spend for their team. The sum would likely have to be adjusted based on the theoretical/historical salary of each GM. This will allow all GMs to bid on any player one by one. There would be a maximum allowable a GM can spend on a player, equal to the amount so that they are able to spend at least $1 to buy the remaining players for their team.
eg Owen has a $200,000 limit could buy Higgins for a max $199,990 so that he has $10 to buy the remaining 10 people for his team (which will be the last 10 people no one else bid on).
After thought: May have to split up the auction for women and men.
Kevin Hughes
Tue, 2016-12-13 22:30
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This was the draft order:
This was the draft order:
Certainly last 2 picks are bottom of the league but I don't think there is a real correlation here. That being said this format sounds interesting.
Owen Lumley
Wed, 2016-12-14 15:11
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I did math
I calculated the % difference between a players current salary and a calculated salary based on a curve fit to a plot of current salaries vs. draft position. I also did this with my own metric of player quality instead of salary just to compare.
Some players have played better than their draft position would suggest, some worse - no surprise there. Adding up the %difference values for each team as it was drafted, the teams that have done better so far have the highest sums and the teams that have not done well have the lowest sums (also not really a surprise). So either the GMs that have done well were able to draft good players farther into the draft, or the players they drafted have just played better than their draft position.
What is clear from the data is that the draft order had little or no bearing on GMs ability to draft better players earlier. Lots of players who have been playing like they should have been drafted in the first half of the draft were drafted in the second half, and vice versa. Probably a lot of this is due to GMs not actually knowing all the players that well, which should get better in the second half of the season. I think not much of this is due to the draft format itself. My point is that a change to the draft format would not have much effect on initial team balancing, unless all the GMs have much better analysis/understanding on how each player will affect game outcomes.
The idea from Amos about forcing GMs to draft themselves in certain rounds makes sense - I don't think it would actually require the creation of tiers of players - just agreeing on what draft position the GMs lose to draft themselves. Also drafting genders separately might help ease complexity of decision making, leading to better balance.
Owen Lumley
Wed, 2016-12-14 15:23
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All that being said, I would
All that being said, I would love to have an auction draft because I think it would be fun. I just don't think it would have helped balance teams.
Sina Dee
Wed, 2016-12-14 07:41
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This could be an interesting
This could be an interesting idea. I would think it would go well for the first round or two. The bids could drop off dramatically after.
I like the current style because the judgements and comments made. Ahhhh the ridicule. You could shake things up by allowing players to be stolen as they are drafted. Each GM will be allowed to steal one pick, can't be stolen from twice in one round, and players in first, second, and third round can't be stolen. The latter will allow GMs to choose and keep their Higgins and Chows.
Mike Lee
Wed, 2016-12-14 08:46
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To build off this, we wrap
To build off this, we wrap every player up in a box put them underneath a tree and the GMs do a Yankee Swap.
In the current format, does the draft compensate for the projected salary of each GM?
Christopher Keates
Wed, 2016-12-14 09:25
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It didn't in previous years.
Year Beta: 1 draft, no need to account for GMs. GM's salary applied to cap.
Year 1: same, but we had a bonus gimmick week where 6 "lucky" players got to play GM for a week, did a draft, and salary balanced their teams all in a single week! Vanessa Lyon killed that draft, and another participant (Stan) used that experience to build a winning formula for the next year of Parity.
Year 2: First year where a re-draft happened.
In year 2, re-draft order was based on reverse standings, and left as a snake. Cap was not enforced at the draft, but was enforced a game or two after the draft to give GM's some flexibility in terms of draft strategy.
This was... entertaining as hell, and I hope the league does it again. Let's look at some numbersr!
Draft order/resulting salary over cap or under floor was:
1. Kindha, +$538,232
2. Stan, in cap.
3. Jessie, -$28,241
4. Mehmet, -$798,630
5. Rob, -$50,443
6. Al, -$372,678
7. Ian, in cap
8. Sina, +$1,013,605
One of the reasons we did the redraft order in reverse of standings was to give GMs with losing records first crack at the roster of their choice, and it worked out pretty well. For the most part, GMs corrected mistakes from the first draft (player value became more apparent after 9 weeks of data), and teams ended up being fairly balanced.
It also allowed GMs to go for different draft strategies. Mehmet valued a specific skillset he felt was under-valued in the league and drafted accordingly. He eventually made it to the finals. Sina threw dollar bills around, signing contracts like he was the Washington Racist Names. It didn't work out.
It worked pretty well and was very easy and intuitive to draft around, plus it created a fun little sandbox for the GMs to build a strategy in.
Sina Dee
Wed, 2016-12-14 10:14
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What do you mean it didn't
What do you mean it didn't work out for me? I ended up trading willy nilly and got people to play with other people. Players left my team as quickly as they came in. Everybody won!
Laura Chambers ...
Wed, 2016-12-14 09:38
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To Mike Lee's point, perhaps
To Mike Lee's point, perhaps all players are just ranked based on skill/past salary but remain "unnamed". That way each GM picks a "female 7" or a "male 10" but you don't know who you're going to get.
Then it's really f-ing Christmas when you open up your box of male 10 and you're like... AL COLANTONIO! It's a Merry Christmas this year. Or whatever.
It would take the personalities out of it and make it hilarious.
Mike Lee
Wed, 2016-12-14 10:08
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You mean you open up your
You mean you open up your boxes and they are ALL Al Colantonio...with some Alessandro Colonnier sprinkled in here and there.
Laura Chambers ...
Wed, 2016-12-14 10:15
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Imagine a team of all
Imagine a team of all Alessandros? Kindha's dream.
Maybe Bush can do stats on that team.
Alessandro Cola...
Wed, 2016-12-14 10:34
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There aren't enough
There aren't enough Alessandros to go around. We could make pairs though.
Line 1: Alessandro, Chris, Laura, Melissa, Rob, Steve.
Line 2: Alessandro, Chris, Laura, Melissa, Rob, Steve.
After the break, some nefarious GM would draft Alessandro, Alessandro, Aleks, Alex, Chris, Chris, Chris, Christine, Krys, Jaime, Jamie, Melissa, Melissa. It would be awesome to prevent switches.
Geofford Seaborn
Wed, 2016-12-14 10:44
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I'll call that game; good
I'll call that game; good luck to whoever's pushing the buttons.
Amos Lee
Wed, 2016-12-14 10:49
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Pushing the buttons is easy.
Pushing the buttons is easy. In fact, it's easier. More surface area to hit the name.
Good luck to the team getting properly assigned stats :D
Amos Lee
Wed, 2016-12-14 10:59
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To align with OCUA's goals
To align with OCUA's goals for Parity League (actual parity, not necessarily reliant on salary), I suggested that before the draft we create tiers of 8 players per gender with reasonably comparable skill. GMs would be included in the tiers.
At draft, we'd pick an order and draft within a tier. If a GM was included in that tier, they would essentially pick themselves for that round.
Could be more work but it keeps the draft and might land closer to parity at the onset of the season. Then salary can manage the rest.
There's likely no perfect way to do it but the way it's done now doesn't really jive with how OCUA wants the league to unfold at the beginning of the season.
Christopher Keates
Wed, 2016-12-14 11:38
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Parity comes in all sorts of shapes and sizes.
Mehmet's strategy from last year would not work in this format, and his team was in the finals. His team was largely criticized as being "weak", but in the second half of the year he won more than he lost and kept every game close.
In year 1, Seb's team was of similar construction, and won.
In year beta, Martin and Glen Ford played fetch for a bunch of games while Hadrian bottomed out his roster so he could give and go with Kinley, but it was Rob's balanced offense and great use of novice players that won.
> but the way it's done now doesn't really jive with how OCUA wants the league to unfold at the beginning of the season.
I said this in the podcast, and I meant it: "parity" as defined by salaries is a gimmick. It will not work perfectly (but it does work pretty well). Your suggestion requires people to agree on "tiers" and it's all based on a subjective valuing of players. The state of the league right now is largely a result of draft results (there are a few notable draft decisions that I would suggest were mistakes). Players taken earlier than they should, or later than they should, will be drafted much closer to where they should next time around because of the knowledge and understanding we have of them after many weeks of play.
This alone fixes most of the parity issues in the league, and it then becomes a game of building a cohesive team with a good on field strategy.
I get what you're trying to do with your suggestion, but you tie GMs hands to specific subjective valuations of players and reduce or eliminate the freedom to game plan in the way that several of the most notably savvy GMs have in the three years this league has run.
Building balanced teams (whatever "balanced teams" are) isn't easy. Strong teams on paper regularly do not mesh, weaker teams regularly play well together and perform better than expected, etc.
Amos Lee
Wed, 2016-12-14 15:33
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My idea is only meant to
My idea is only meant to achieve parity sooner post-draft and in line with OCUA's goals for the league.
There's nothing to say that a strategy like Mehmet is moot given my suggestion for the draft. He just has to trade his way into it. Doesn't like that top-tier player he "had" to draft so he can pick up someone who would sooner adopt his strategies? Doubt anybody is going to give up that opportunity to snag his top tier player.
Regarding redraft, nobody is debating that everything is made clearer by that time in the season. That's not the point.
While we might "tie GMs hands" with this method, my intent was that GMs would be in agreement of the tiers. Input from 8 GMs over the perception of players would be as close as we can get at the onset of the season.
Hadrian Mertins...
Thu, 2016-12-15 09:44
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No regrets
Playing give-and-go with Kinley for the whole season was worth finishing 5th.
Hadrian Mertins...
Thu, 2016-12-15 09:52
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Another approach to parity
Kudos to Mike for the interesting proposal. The biggest problem I see, which is no different from the current format, is that the GMs simply don't know a lot of the players in the league so they're guessing at their value anyway.
Separate thought about in-season parity: would we get more balanced outcomes if salaries scaled more to performance?
Right now, the team that's undefeated isn't really worth that much more than the team in last place (about $1 million). So Owen is basically able to shuffle some mid-salary players to get under the cap without drastically changing his roster, which doesn't make a huge difference for Kindha. If BOD was worth, say, $3 million more than Katy Parity you'd force more blockbuster trades that would have a real impact on parity.
Owen Lumley
Thu, 2016-12-15 10:38
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We played Kindha this week
We played Kindha this week and won by 1 point, and I'm really trying not to lose.
Christopher Keates
Thu, 2016-12-15 10:57
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No.
> would we get more balanced outcomes if salaries scaled more to performance.
The math would just be "different".
Because the economy of the league is interconnected, small gaps in salary and performance should be seen as fairly significant (but they aren't because 725k looks a lot like 775k). It's an optics thing.
The flip side of this is team effects: strong teams have strong collective outcomes, and for maybe the first time in my life I will unironically say that a rising tide lifts all boats.
Put another way: how many players on Boss or Kaboom are undervalued precisely because those teams have scored few goals? How many players on Basket are overvalued because the team has scored a lot?
Parity and math are fun you guys!
Laura Chambers ...
Thu, 2016-12-15 11:41
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Keates... you make me like
Keates... you make me like mathing. Sometimes even more than sportsing!
Carrie-Anne Whyte
Thu, 2016-12-15 11:43
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My brain hurts...math is too complicated.
Sometimes I feel like there should be an extra adjustment for the difference in how much you win/lose. Like last week, the delta difference btw Basket and Katy Parity was 1pt (which is a very close game) versus the game betwee Like a Boss and SOS where there was a 9 point difference (SOS won the game). Yet, Like a Boss owes $188,070 and SOS has space for $359,053 in fantasy money...it just doesn't make sense to me. Like a Boss will likely make trades ...causing further instability to the team.
My brain hurts...math is too complicated. Help.
Christopher Keates
Thu, 2016-12-15 12:04
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This is a true thing!
> Sometimes I feel like there should be an extra adjustment for the difference in how much you win/lose.
We did this year 1. Every player got +/- $1000 for the +/- of their game. It didn't do much to the numbers, and because a player's salary is part of the league's salary as a whole, the math was a bit of a wash.
> Like a Boss and SOS where there was a 9 point difference (SOS won the game). Yet, Like a Boss owes $188,070 and SOS has space for $359,053 in fantasy money
I'm not as well informed on the math of the season as I have been in past years, but it looks like SOS is in cap right now (no need for trades), and Boss was left above cap last trade cycle and is still a bit over the cap as a result.
When we look at the cap, in the way that we have it implemented, it's really just 96 player salaries summed, and divided by 12, +/- a small %. This creates an upper (cap) and lower (floor) limit for an acceptable team salary. A team's 12 players are then compared against that gap to see if it's in range (gap = cap - floor).
Every player affects EVERY team's cap. Every team affects EVERY team's cap.
When you mix in effects that we've talked about before (teams that score on few passes v. lots of passes, teams that score few goals relative to league average, games that are short relative to a week's average) and certain strategic and systemic issues come up. The economy has a few flaws that probably can't be fixed, and there are things that can be (marginally) exploited.
Which all comes back to it not being a perfect system. I don't think it ever can be. Coordinators and GMs are the stakeholders of "parity", and need to work together to create it, while simultaneously working towards their own selfish ends (GMs want to win, coordinators want to stay out of managing the league directly because there's a lot of other things to do).
Whatever Parity is, it ultimately needs to be fun. Draft rules should be fair and fun. Trades should be fair, fit the goal of "parity", and be fun. GMs should try to build winning teams that don't exploit too many of the inefficiencies, and have those teams be fun. Coordinators should create a sandbox for GMs to play in that have understood rules, encourage balance, and is fun.
Frisbee is fun you guys!
Kevin Hughes
Fri, 2016-12-16 10:31
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Part of the issue with this
Part of the issue with this game was that Boss was more than half subs so most of our players weren't affected by our less than awesome game last week.
Justine Price
Thu, 2016-12-15 17:44
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For the sake of small p
For the sake of small p parity, point differential is a much better indicator than the sum of salaries. It's like people who are standing outside who check their phone to see what the weather is like.
Capital P parity is explicitly about funsies. (im assuming everyone knows this is me(Chris)and not Justine- she rarely uses algebra in conversation) One possibility to work around the counter-intuitive team salaries but still keep the fun would be to judge need based on point differential and then convert it to salary for trades (eg. Team A is minus 14 this period, they are entitled to $140 000 in trade value). This would require a lot more math to come up with a point differential to salary dollar ratio. (i wonder how many people on this thread got sweaty hands when they read that sentence. go mathletes go!)
Sebastien Belanger
Tue, 2017-01-24 12:55
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Proposed Rule Change for Playoffs
This seems to be the unoficial thread for tweaks to Parity league rules to improve league parity.
My suggestions is that all teams have comparable salaries when facing each other in play-offs. This would hopefully result in the two teams having comparable skills thereby making games closer and more interesting when it matters most.
Currently, a captain can request a sub if the number of men available is less than 6 or women is less than 3. The only condition on the subs are that they must have an equal or lesser salary value than 1 of the missing players. Instead, teams should be asked to pick a sub that represents an average salary of all the missing players. In addition, if you wanted to cary this concept futher, if a team is missing only 1 or 2 players but the missing players impact the team salary average in a statistically significant way (+/- 10%) they are allowed to / forced to pick up a player that would bring the average salaty back into tolorable levels. So, you could see a scenerio like last night play out where F-bombs is forced to pick-up a low salary players (i.e. myself) to decrease their advantage (on paper). Obviously, this would be too much to implement for regular games but playoffs could/would be much more interesting (I think) with this in place.